You mean LG, right Zorg?

I'd like maybe a bit higher RF against RIPs. The way it is, they are powerful in very large numbers, and since this universe lasts less than 3 months (compared to xtreme which is over 2 years old) very few people can build so many... A slight increase in RF would make people combine their fleets a bit and stop the mobile turtles.

i heared ppl say LG are kinda fail against LF is that curable for the speed server? i am not sure how yet cause i havent tried that in full length yet.

SPY wrote:i heared ppl say LG are kinda fail against LF is that curable for the speed server? i am not sure how yet cause i havent tried that in full length yet.

Lol, why fix it? It's intended.

That attitude is why RIP's are so overpowered, every ship needs to have a strength and a weakness. If you're fighting an LF heavy fleet, use something that is strong against them as a counter.. It's not like you're gonna attack and LF fleet with LG.

understood and appreciate for the clarity of thought

and agreed i think vulnerability should always be there imperfection is the key to make it humanly. RIPs truly are godly machines.

@The
An increase in LG RF against RIPs is fine and gets along well with our current planning. We have increased LG RF rating VS rips in BETA and you can do test using this page:
http://beta.zorgempire.net/simulator.php

RF rating there is now 8 instead of 6.

We invite everyone to post their point of view after some testing so we end up in the best decision. If you find 8 too much, we will move it to 7 for testing. I do not think that a greater value will work well but we still can test it if you do not find it to work well.

I love the increase from 6 to 8. I say we implement that in speed already

But the problem isn't about the LGs it's about RIPs being too strong. They leave no room for tactics.

Lets say
player B has 6 rips and 2000 LLs, and player A attacks player B with 425 LGs (which is, according to the 3:2:1 trade ratio pretty much the same cost). In most sims player A loses his whole fleet.

The attacker has lost a total of 51.000.000 units.
The defender has lost a total of 17.000.000 units.

So after that sim, he realizes he needs some ships to crash the LLs so his LGs can beat those RIPs. Usually 1.7k BCs is more than enough to beat 2k LLs. So player A attacks player B with 425 LGs and 1700 BCs.
Here's the usual outcome:

The attacker has lost a total of 119.480.000 units.
The defender has lost a total of 47.000.000 units.

Even though player A's fleet is 3.76 times more expensive than player B's RIPs and LLs, player A's fleet still gets massacred... All BC's gone...

So one would say, why not invest all the resources you spent on BCs for LGs. That would do, if LGs weren't so crappy against fodder and defense.

Even if player A has 1k Lgs and 1.7k BCs, against player B he still gets ***-kicked, even though his fleet is now over 5 times more expensive.

The attacker has lost a total of 100.660.000 units.
The defender has lost a total of 47.000.000 units.


What I am trying to say, it is not the RF from LGs that is so problematic. It's the RIPs. I say we either lower their shields or their RF against other ships. It became too popular to cover your fleet with a few RIPs and some defense and then not FS 'cause even a player with a fleet 5 times stronger can't crash you...

The wrote:I love the increase from 6 to 8. I say we implement that in speed already

It will also be updated in X-TREME.
We want to add it as soon as possible but some more testing would be good.

this is from extreme a simulation between wsa 18 18 18 vs 20 20 20
with
10.000 probes + 200.000 LG
against
100 RIP

on the first round it showed this

The attacking fleet fires 2 times for a total of 2.643.200.000 points of damage on the defender. The defender shields absord 26.700.000 points of damage.

The defensive fleet fires back 270 times for a total of 16.524.000.000 points of damage against the attacker. The attacker shields absorb 58.285.714 points of damage.

is the rf correct with the current setup? or was it against the probes? cause in a different simulation it showed 50% decrease but least i got was 43 rf from RIP against the attacking fleet.

if anyone can help interpret that would be good.

EDIT:
my interpretation is that the rips raised rf against Probes and in the process the LG were saved. and in 1 scenario i saw LG hitting the RIP's with only 1 time. if that is the case what happened with all the RF LG had on rips? is it the showing the probes RF if so this is kinda hard to interpret.

i am not sure but i remember there was another thread that said the Interpretations will be much detailed for the next simulator or CRs. if that is so i believe it is needed fast.

Other than the end results it is hard to guess what would be the end result unless i put LG against RIP with 0 loss hits without any fodders.

I agree wholeheartedly with The, the RIP's should be addressed more than the LG. Even with Lunar Guardians it's still a he with the most RIP's wins game.

Power should be relative to cost, as The pointed out, RIP's can destroy fleets, in some cases, up to 10 times their cost. This means players who worked for a good fleet are still beaten by the casual people who come online and just put a few RIP's in the shipyard queue.

LG can't remedy that, all other ships are still going to be decimated.

Good addition, but the RIP needs to be evaluated more than the LG imo. Do some sims yourself and see what we mean.

We are against to change RIPs RF rates or whatever. Remember that RIP has to be strong and remember that RIP has 1 huge weakness: speed. It is easy to ninja them, especially now with ACS attack.
Also, let us not forget how many reacted when we suggested to increase RIP fuel consumption. Istalris, you were among the ones who stood heavily against it. The result was the fuel consumption to remain at 1 in X-TREME while in Speed and Standard, it got an increase lower than initially planned. This shows how unready most people are to hectic changes. This is why the modification of LG is the best way to go.

Back on topic:
Perhaps we should add some more speed to LG as well and we are still open to some more RF. We would like to see players who will have many LGs that will use against rips and will be in this way an important part for any well organized alliance. Perhaps integral.

LGs must have open weaknesses too to ensure that players can still create strategies to protect their rips.

What we also want to achieve is to give the proper depth to battle engine, utilizing our RF system so that players who have spent some time into creating a working fleet will be benefited. Right now, many choose the easy way to just amass RIPs. Such strategies should be vulnerable and this is one of the intentions of LG.

I like all the examples and we are open to ideas on topic; how to make sure LG is an anti rip ship. What needs to be further changed ? You have already used it in X-TREME, you are already aware of its strengths and weaknesses. The ship already has a shape and here we can do some small adjustments.

Remember, the ship design honors the ship name which is LUNAR GUARDIAN. This ship was initially designed as a defense ship and this is why it is weak against defenses. Expecting it to be strong against RIPs when attacking, is not going to work. The exception could possibly come in big scale ACS attacks... which is exactly the point.

I would appreciate more opinions and view, especially by players who already use LGs in their weaponry or have conducted plans to futurely use them.