Well,people will be out to get their own (money,power,etc.), no matter how it effects other people. Greed is the issue here. Looking at life realistically is being thrown out the window, replaced by the "need" to be perfect, to try and be better then the guy/girl next to ya.

Sorry, Milito, I read your post as "Twilight *****" and I thought you were saying that it was the book's fault. Which I disagreed with. Sorry for the confusion, your last sentence about not reading books is what through me off.

And I still can't help but feel you're placing the blame on the books, rather than the readers. People read Harry Potter and become completely obsessed, but is it the fault of the book? No, of course not. Its a book meant to entertain, not force people into dressing up as wizards and shouting incoherent sentences.

corbeil wrote:Well,people will be out to get their own (money,power,etc.), no matter how it effects other people. Greed is the issue here. Looking at life realistically is being thrown out the window, replaced by the "need" to be perfect, to try and be better then the guy/girl next to ya.

Honestly, I believe greed is the number one reason we are as intelligent as we are. Our wants are what have fueled our scientific development from the very beginning. Take the moon, for example. We (U.S.) wanted to be the first to go to the Moon, because we didn't want Soviet Russia to be seen as more powerful (Greed). We wanted faster forms of transportation, cars were invented and are continually being developed to fit our wants. Some of the most amazing structures were built from greed. Pyramids? Yeah, some dudes wanted a big coffin, essentially.

Granted some of the greed isn't as productive, if everyone were in the state of "Oh well, I guess I can't have it" we would still be in caves drawing pictures on the walls. Its a double edged sword. Some times (Well, most of the time) it is bad, but in those few cases that it is good, it makes up for it.

I agree that greed has jump started a few developments of mankind. But look at what is happening to the world of today. Everyone working more and more to try to get money, cause families to split up. The world is becoming faster paced, making emotions mean nothing to people ( as in the loss of a human life,etc.). People try to be the best looking, cause self esteem issues, raising the suicide rate. Its just kinda sad if you look at the world, say, 50 years ago and compare it to today. At least it is for me anyway.

I think the doomsayers need to lay off FOX News for a while. The quality of life has been steadily increasing for years. People seldom work more than 45-50 hours tops while just a few decades ago 60-70 hours was the norm. There is no indication that suicides are increasing nor has the divorce rate jumped dramatically. On the contrary, many couples are staying together longer whether married or not.

And greed isn't the only way to describe wanting to be a success. Otherwise, communism and socialism would work. The granola munching tree huggers of the 60's and 70's are the CEOs of major corporations not out of greed but out of intelligence, innovation, and a dedication to a work ethic that seems itself to be the only thing in danger today.

If anything, the new wave of entitlement driven punks who expect things handed to them are the antithesis of the greedy money mongering stereotypical business man. Its those people that whine incessantly about what they don't have and what the government should give to them that pose the greatest threat to our way of life.

Hate to burst your bubbles, folks, but the quality of life for a resident of this planet earth is increasing. We do less and get paid more. We're fat, healthy, and stupidly glued to the internet and sound bites blasting from our big screen TVs. We don't need to hunt for existence nor do we need to slave in a coal mine or til the fields to make just enough to survive.

If you think our world is an ever increasing cesspool, turn off the frigging TV, throw your laptop in the river, and get off your lazy *** to make a positive change in the things you don't like. Me? I think we're doing pretty damn good.

Slash wrote:I think the doomsayers need to lay off FOX News for a while.

Haha, amen to that.

Slash wrote: And greed isn't the only way to describe wanting to be a success. Otherwise, communism and socialism would work. The granola munching tree huggers of the 60's and 70's are the CEOs of major corporations not out of greed but out of intelligence, innovation, and a dedication to a work ethic that seems itself to be the only thing in danger today.

Were you referring to what I was saying...Or to corbeil?

If the former, I was under the impression that Communism and Socialism DIDN'T work because of greed? People don't get a reward for working harder (As they do (Or...Should, I suppose) in Capitalism) so, the motivation is gone, since a guy who sits on his *** gets the same as a guy who gives 110%... If the latter, then disregard this paragraph

corbeil wrote: Its just kinda sad if you look at the world, say, 50 years ago and compare it to today. At least it is for me anyway.

Not really o.O I'd rather live now rather than 50 years ago. You know, when we were just ending the second World War? And then began the Cold War? Or when we were fighting in Vietnam?

Those weren't good times. Granted SOME people are having to take second or third jobs to live, SOME people don't even have to lift a finger. The average is the same, I think that MAYBE the difference is just increasing. I base my theory of this on absolutely nothing, of course. I'm just taking an uneducated guess on the matter, lol.

But, since apparently ANY form of Socialism(No matter how slight)=Hitler/Stalin/Kim Jong Il combined...We aren't exactly going to do anything to solve it. o.O Another nice reason to have FOX news shut off for being dipsh*ts...

Urweirdsaysi wrote:
But, since apparently ANY form of Socialism(No matter how slight)=Hitler ...

This is, by no means, a rude comment. Hitler was everything that defines Not-Socialist. Fascism is the extreme right movement, based in nationalism and individualism, to name a couple ideas. Can't put him on the same boat with Stallin nor any 'comrade'.

To Slash:
That's exactly the problem, a couple posts back i talked exactly about this issue. We've never been in a better situation before, where we can do less and get more. The thing is, it can't last forever. We depend on fossil fuels, we've been destroying forests and making damps on rivers damaging the cycle of many different species. Do you honestly believe that we could keep living the same lives we live and pretend the world is 'gonna take it like a man'?. Sooner or later we're going to find ourselves so deep in sh*t it's going to be impossible to pull us out.

Milito wrote:

Urweirdsaysi wrote:
But, since apparently ANY form of Socialism(No matter how slight)=Hitler ...

This is, by no means, a rude comment. Hitler was everything that defines Not-Socialist. Fascism is the extreme right movement, based in nationalism and individualism, to name a couple ideas. Can't put him on the same boat with Stallin nor any 'comrade'.

I'm aware of his political views, what I meant by that was that people see any sort of Socialistic government as "evil," hence the Hitler reference. Since he is pretty much an icon of evil. By most people, at least.

I didn't mean that HE was Socialist, but merely the connection a vast majority seem to love to try and connect.

Slash wrote:I think the doomsayers need to lay off FOX News for a while. The quality of life has been steadily increasing for years. People seldom work more than 45-50 hours tops while just a few decades ago 60-70 hours was the norm. There is no indication that suicides are increasing nor has the divorce rate jumped dramatically. On the contrary, many couples are staying together longer whether married or not.

And greed isn't the only way to describe wanting to be a success. Otherwise, communism and socialism would work. The granola munching tree huggers of the 60's and 70's are the CEOs of major corporations not out of greed but out of intelligence, innovation, and a dedication to a work ethic that seems itself to be the only thing in danger today.

If anything, the new wave of entitlement driven punks who expect things handed to them are the antithesis of the greedy money mongering stereotypical business man. Its those people that whine incessantly about what they don't have and what the government should give to them that pose the greatest threat to our way of life.

Hate to burst your bubbles, folks, but the quality of life for a resident of this planet earth is increasing. We do less and get paid more. We're fat, healthy, and stupidly glued to the internet and sound bites blasting from our big screen TVs. We don't need to hunt for existence nor do we need to slave in a coal mine or til the fields to make just enough to survive.

If you think our world is an ever increasing cesspool, turn off the frigging TV, throw your laptop in the river, and get off your lazy *** to make a positive change in the things you don't like. Me? I think we're doing pretty damn good.

heh just a couple of points...

The "traditional" work week no longer applies because of connectivity. If you take into consideration the amount of time people spend doing mobile email, working from home, "taking care of one more thing" before bedtime... well lets just say I can personally attest to still working 55-60 hours per week. For that, I know I am not alone. I get about 150-300 emails per day depending on the day of the week and about 75-100 of those are from a varied base of clients and occur between 7pm and midnight. Our client base is probably only 200 or 300 companies acrossed US, Canada, and Mexico. For most mid level corporate personnel this is still the norm. I do agree with you about divorce and life though... people are not killing themselves or cheating on spouse/sig other because they are spending 80 hours at the office anymore.

There are quite a few CEO/CIO/CFO out there that are part of the entitlement mentality you speak of. There has been significant progression with a minority of people/companies but I will contest the the majority DO NOT contribute to the progress rather then ride the coat tails of others doing the dirty work. I think that most of the younger (read non-harvard/yale/MIT/skulls) CEOs are doing more of the dirty work today because of the changed business model of corporate America over the last 10-15 years.

I do agree the quality of life is better then ever though however... I think EVERYONE needs to make a positive change in the things they don't like rather then complain about them.