"and yes i keep posting same things becuz admin will pay attention if only i keep my offers posting"

Actually, I think that most people will eventually ignore you if you have anything new to add. Re-posting for no reason is counter productive and could harm the players that agree with you.

Like little girls b i t c h slapping each other the whole time here

Alduin theres no such thing as just a miner, or just a raider.... thats just what you specialize in i for one specialize in defense... so i guess id be a turtle, but i still have a fleet to raid and i still upgrade my mines... if you were a miner and didnt build defenses and didnt build a den high enough to protect offline production and add to that your main energy supplier was sats and you failed as a player... the key to the game is profit, ive never seen a raider or a fleeter hit someone on purpose for no profit unless they are provoked(with you seem to do to every fleeter in the game) The issue is not miners in generals i can tell you that much.... And I believe zorg is correct that not many people choose the role of the turtle from the start because the cost does not outweigh the benefit so they should be buffed!

Here is the issue with why the den has to be removed. Each general has 2 buffs. One buff is a passive boost that doesn't have any risk to it, It helps the generals play style overall. Examples: 10% production/energy, 2 extra fleet slots, 15% WSA, and 90% regen to defenses.

Next we have an active buff with a type of risk. Ill go in order based oh how much risk each buff is starting with the most riskiest ones first.

-Star Raider

The star raider is by far the most riskiest ship to use. This ship's early game potential is strong, but once mid game comes along it starts to fall off, It has low shields meaning you have to send a lot more to no lose and it is guaranteed you will lose a lot of them in a large scale fight anyway. Their is always a degree of risk with ships being used in combat.

-Predator

As said before any ship used in combat has some degree of risk that includes. Sure its one of the safest combat ships to use, but it can be beaten. 4 battleships vs 1 predator is the ratio that battleships can win against the predator. Even with those odds the predator price ratio to battleships is about 5.1. so for every 1 predator you could make 5 battleships. This ship has weaknesses, so stop acting like its the apocalypse of fleeting.

- Voyager

Since this vessel does not have any place in combat it has the least degree of risk. All this vessel does is go to deep space and find resources. Even if it sometimes finds black holes it can't be very often. That being said, It doesn't take long for this ship to repay its value at a steady rate. The only risk here is if you forget to FS your fleet.

- The Den

Ah yes the den, lets take a recap on what we have been seeing for buffs from the other three generals. All the others were ships, have a somewhat degree of risk, and can be destroyed. The den on the other hand, does not share the qualities. It is of course a building. Meaning it can't be lost aka no risk.
"But its fair cause is play miner lolololololol your just mad" <---Every comment trying to defend the den in a nutshell. I'm still waiting to see any reason to keep it, The miner general accounts for more then half of the top 10(Really?). You guys are trying to play it off like nothing is wrong with the miner general. The den is not something you play with, I'm not crashing it, It's not crashing me, it's not going to expeditions and it's definitely not crashing fleet. All this building does is stop a mechanic of the game. That's right, it's only function is to STOP and MECHANIC of the game. What does it take to accomplish this? Nothing. I could have a 5 year old press the build button and that 5 year old just stopped a mechanic of the game. It's that easy, But you know what? lets just all have dens. Fleeters get the fleet den. That's fun right? hides the ships. Raiders? Have the Moon den, hides the moon. Is the game fun yet? let me know. Well just give defense general the defense den. Lets just make that a trend because you all love it so much. Strategy game? Nah lets just call it Den Empire. That will be fun guys lets do it, General server? nah well call it the server of dens.

But really, The den is a really bad, it offers nothing but stopping others from playing, But lets break down all the people that are wanting to keep the Den. These players fit into one of the three categories.

These players were all miner generals.

These players were all in the same alliance.

These Players never killed a Fleet in the tournament.

Sure all the people complaining about the den are raiders and fleeters but their the only ones really playing the game in depth, not sitting around hiding behind the den.

It's a strategy game just because u don't like that or do it that strategy does not mean others can't u don't win the tournament by hitting fleet but having the most points

mickylove wrote:It's a strategy game just because u don't like that or do it that strategy does not mean others can't u don't win the tournament by hitting fleet but having the most points

You just missed the point by a mile.

I went miner due to time constraints/work etc....Miner General offered storage dens so it made sense.....without them I would never have bothered signing up. So yh it suited me and others in the same position as myself just fine (fleeter last tourny as I already mentioned, had lots of free time then) As I already stated ( how repetitious is this storage issue gonna be repeated by the same people?) storage only protects so much....for full protection per colony the cost of dens was excessive imo but understandable.....yh u are right, people who want to keep dens were miners mainly....OBVIOUSLY! Same alliance? AND? Never killed a fleet? REALLY? Guess that's why they were miners mostly lol....yet we had players in THAT alliance who still managed to raise a fleet that you NEVER managed to get. Btw, we did get a few fleet crashes and lanx hits that u guys missed.....maybe you need to rethink where you went wrong there rather than saying "dens are really bad" lol

Sprog wrote:I went miner due to time constraints/work etc....Miner General offered storage dens so it made sense.....without them I would never have bothered signing up. So yh it suited me and others in the same position as myself just fine (fleeter last tourny as I already mentioned, had lots of free time then) As I already stated ( how repetitious is this storage issue gonna be repeated by the same people?) storage only protects so much....for full protection per colony the cost of dens was excessive imo but understandable.....yh u are right, people who want to keep dens were miners mainly....OBVIOUSLY! Same alliance? AND? Never killed a fleet? REALLY? Guess that's why they were miners mostly lol....yet we had players in THAT alliance who still managed to raise a fleet that you NEVER managed to get. Btw, we did get a few fleet crashes and lanx hits that u guys missed.....maybe you need to rethink where you went wrong there rather than saying "dens are really bad" lol

as predicted, not one good reason to have dens, what you just told us in a nutshell. " I couldn't play as much as everyone else, but I still wanted to win so miner was the best choice."

Do keep up Didact....go through my previous posts here...I joined by invite to help alliance and for moonshot help. Yes I did have limited game play time so took miner as it ticked all the boxes as I just stated. Did I do it with any intention of winning? Obviously not lol. Good reason ( as u just asked ) for keeping den? Because I didn't want to be a no lifer constantly playing 24/7....that is why! You say I should have no dens so you lot can farm me 5 times each every 24 hours lol...get real will you......easier way would have been to have taken my 800k + fleet surely

Let's talk about the raiders and turtles. Zorg made it abundantly clear that dens will not be messed with.
The real topic is this; how can they improve gameplay for those two?